May 07, 2013 - Interpersonal Violence
3044 07 May, 2013
May 07, 2013 - INTERPERSONAL VIOLENCE
Mrs. Backer: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I hope the temperature during the debate on this motion on interpersonal violence, standing in my name, will be more comfortable for all.
I rise to move the motion standing in my name on interpersonal violence and would like to say immediately that it is a relatively simple motion while, of course, dealing with something that is very, very deeply ingrained; something that together - and that word will appear several times in my short presentation - something that together we should seek to, if not eliminate to contain.
First, the motion defines violence in the first Whereas clause. The definition is taken from the First World Report on violence and health which was released in October 2002, over 10 years ago, but it is still very relevant. In the second Whereas clause the motion goes on to define interpersonal violence which is what the motion seeks to deal with today.
Second, having defined violence and interpersonal violence the motion goes on to assert that interpersonal violence has, in our opinion, reached epidemic proportions in Guyana. This epidemic has a negative effect on both the economic growth and the health of our country, not to mention, of course, our safety.
Third, the motion seeks to lament that despite laudable and innumerable initiatives by various Government agencies, by schools, by religious bodies, by volunteer organisations and other community based organisations, despite the laudable and innumerable initiatives taken, the reality is that interpersonal violence remains up close and personal, very real and forever present in our landscape.
No day goes by in Guyana; no day in Guyana seems complete without multiple reports of either murder or murders, stabbing, rape, attempted rape, life threatening incidents of domestic violence, school violence, abuse of our elderly etcetera. Today’s Stabroek Newspaper, page 9, “Miss Phoebe pensioner murdered”. Page 13 of the same paper, “Guyanese woman seeks residence in Canada as refugee from domestic abuse” and it goes on to tell us about that in Guyana. The 30th April, “63 year old remanded for murder of plastic city teen”. This is the 63-year old mane that is alleged to have stabbed his step-daughter, I think they said 21 times, over whatever argument. “Papa George gets nine years for killing wife.” This is any day. “Guyanese woman chopped to death in Barbados.”
7.20 p.m.
You may say this is not Guyana, but it could well have been Guyana. “Baby boy found abandoned.” Interpersonal violence is also about neglect, so you have persons in the 21st Century abandoning babies by kokers. “Teen mother kills man who made sexual advances.” This was very recent and the young lady is supposedly pregnant and I believe she may be in jail as we speak.
The point is, every day and that is just the tip of the iceberg because that is what meets us, but even as we speak some young girl, young boy, older woman or man going Hon. Member, having completed a day’s hard work, even as we speak, is most probably being attacked, assaulted sexually or physically or both. I do not think anyone can argue about where we are with interpersonal violence.
It is against this backdrop of so many initiatives aimed at reducing interpersonal violence on the one hand and the persistence high incidence of interpersonal violence on the other hand, that this motion was tabled. It was tabled because while most of us here, on both sides of the House, have already raised our voices against interpersonal violence whilst wearing other hats, for example, the House did it in a previous motion passed in 2008. That was a motion about violence against women and children. We have done so in the different civic groups that we are members of. Dr. Persaud is a member of, I do not want to say the name of the Hindu organisation because I may get it wrong, but she is very involved and I have seen her speaking about alcohol and so on. Dr. Ramsammy has spoken quite passionately about alcohol. Minister Manickchand, in her previous dispensation, spoke about domestic violence and alcohol not being an excuse. And here, religious bodies, Ms. Wade would have spoken about it in her church and all around. However, we have never together, as one body, which means the elected representatives of the people of Guyana, never once in one voice said we stand in a united way, unanimously, without any space between us, on this issue of interpersonal violence. That is the context, the backdrop, if you will, of why this motion was brought.
It is time that this House, where many people feel we cannot agree on anything must stand firm in our belief on something as basic, vital and something as everyday as interpersonal violence. As I say and as we say, it remains up close and personal.
This one voice approach that A Partnership for National Unity (APNU) feel is so important in a motion of this nature, which lead APNU, before we tabled the motion, to share the draft motion with both the PPP/C, with no less than their Chief Whip and, with no less a person than the Hon. Member Mrs. Hughes, on behalf of the Alliance for Change. I personally said to them, look at the motion, see if it can be improved; we would be prepared and we would, in fact, encourage in the spirit of a one voice approach, if either party would be prepared, to second that motion. That did not happen.
I am going to talk briefly on the Hon. Member Ms. Teixeira’s proposed amendments that I first saw this morning; it came in my mailbox about 11.30, but I was only able to open it a bit later when I left court. I am slightly disappointed, not in the contents of the amendments, which I will get to, but in the fact that, we really wanted us to have the discussion, so like I said, we can come with joint ownership of this motion, but that was not to be.
What are the effects of interpersonal violence because we know what it is? Some of the effects are, the most obvious and immediate ones, the pain and suffering of the victims and his or her family. If someone is killed that family is forever ruptured. If someone, as a result loses a limb or two, that family is forever ruptured. Loss of income; loss of productivity because they lose their income if they cannot work and the country or the company that they work for, the Government Ministry; if they work with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the Hon. Minister Mrs. Carolyn Birkett would be short of a staff or two, if he or she is the result of domestic violence and have to stay away or have to go to the hospital. Dr. Ramsarran will be under strain because scare resources will have to be, not diverted, but will have to be used on that person or persons, whereas it could have been used for persons who would have suffered by things that perhaps would not have been preventable. Interpersonal violence, we always need to keep it in our mind, is preventable. We know it is not utopia so you are going to have some amount of interpersonal violence, but we have to do, by God so, something decrease it, to contain it if you will.
There is a strain on the health system; there is a strain on the legal system because a lot of court time is spent on matters which really should not meet the court; husband chopping wife’s hand off, wife stabbing this one, children being mutilated and we can go on and on.
High levels of interpersonal violence also will deter investments, tourism and all that. When you hear of what is going on people may be a little reluctant to come. Reduced quality of life – for many persons who suffer permanent disability there is a reduced quality of life, as a result of interpersonal violence. We see what happens or what happens as a result of these high incidences; this epidemic as we call it.
A little more elusive is what causes it. What causes a man and woman to go before God and man and say I do, I will love you till death do us part. Perhaps they do love them until they kill them, I do not know. However, the point is, that there are these things we all witness; people cry and are so emotional and then in two years you hear that someone is stabbing someone and children are brutalised.
What causes this? There are many studies and in fact, the more I read and Google the more I saw. It was almost like report fatigue, should I do this one and should I believe this. There seems to be a general sort of consensus that this is learned behaviour to an extent. Studies have said that this maybe learned behaviour. A person grows up in violence he or she is prone to reproduce and to continue violence, as they themselves, as I said, grew up.
Harsh corporal punishment subjected to that, whether it is at home or in the schools and that may lead to a person learning that this is perhaps is the way to go on. Bullying in the schools – I am the bigger one; I am the Odinga Lumumba. I did not mean it in that way; I cannot say this is Debbie Backer because I am a little short. The Hon. Member Mr. Lumumba understands me. This is a big person and feeling that I can bully this person. So there are a lot of reasons.
There is also the belief in Guyana particularly that a bed fellow of excessive alcohol and drug use is interpersonal violence. There is that belief. In fact, there was a magistrate in Berbice, in August, 2010 who was so sure that he stated the root cause of domestic violence was alcohol. He stated that it was in 100% of the domestic cases that came before him in Berbice. I do not want to call the magistrate’s name. That maybe an exaggeration, but I think it gets you thinking and there is research done on Dutch courage. It cannot be a coincidence that when persons are drinking, men and women, you hear about it, at some wedding house where someone gets thrown over the verandah. This is a wedding house that has gone to celebrate the beginning of new union and someone is thrown over the verandah or someone’s throat is slit. Then you would read in the newspapers a group of men who were drinking since morning and in the afternoon a little incidence happen and someone is stabbed. They have to run to the hospital and our scarce resources have to be pushed to them, whereas it should not have been necessary, it should have been treating other people.
As we go about Guyana, we see this excessive use of alcohol. I know that Dr. Ramsammy is quite passionate about excessive use of alcohol. In 2007, Dr. Ramsammy spoke about alcohol use being extremely high. Sir, you will notice that I am deliberately including the Government side because I want it to be understood that on this issue, we are all one National Assembly. In August, 2010, the Hon. Member Ms. Manickchand in her previous dispensation said that, while alcohol plays a role in domestic violence, it must not be seen as an excuse to perpetuate violence.
There is this acceptance that excessive use of alcohol - there is an excessive use of alcohol in Guyana. I do not think that anyone can deny that, it is part of our culture – a macho. Someone is about to fall down, “Man tek another drink nah man. How do you mean you can’t drink again?”
Mr. Speaker: Women are drinking more than men in some instances.
Mrs. Backer: Okay, I will say women then.
Mr. Speaker: So that is not macho.
Mrs. Backer: Sir, I accept that. But you know, “Take another drink man.” The person is falling and they are being invited to take another drink.
Mr. Speaker: There is something called the wash down, after you would have exhausted everything you are told to go for a wash down somewhere.
Mrs. Backer: I am hearing from both sides something that is totally inappropriate, but is said everyday in Guyana, “tek one for de road.” You are going to drive and is stumbling, up cannot stand straight and your best friend or your buddy, man or woman says, take another drink, “tek one for de road”. They know you are going to drive home. That is the culture that we have to get rid of.
In addition to alcohol, violence and learned behaviour and all of that, studies in the Caribbean accept that crime and violence is associated with poverty, unemployment and politics. That is why we have to take a united stand here with social inequities. The big one, at least the big one for me, cultural norms - If he don’t beat yuh he don’t love yuh. There are people in the 21st Century who come to my office, young people and say that to me. I say to them, thank God my husband do not love me. That is the kind of thing – “Man stay with him; where are you going? Why are you going? He only beats you every other day; you might go and someone might beat you every day. Think about the children.” Your hand is dropping off – “Oh don’t go, think about the children.”
Our religious leaders and we have several of them here, our church goers; our temple goers; our mosque goers; our worshippers; our leaders in civil society – Lions Club, Rotary, wherever, we have to put an end to this culture. I was going to save this for the conclusion because it is not a long discussion, but I want to bring it on now. I agree with you that it is not only men who perpetuate violence and it is not only women who are victims, or children. This is what it says, a young girl in America, her name unanimous, saying this about men. She said:
“If you are a good man reject violence. If you are a better man detest violence. If you are the best man transform violence.”
That is what all of us here, men and women, have to do. Surely there are some solutions and there will be no paucity, that is what I said, there is a disconnect. I said so in my motion. The Government - there are innumerable initiatives taken by this Government.
In her amendment to the Resolved clause, which I said I will touch on just now, the Hon. Member Ms. Teixeira spoke about some of them, but even these that she mentioned are not exhaustive, there are even more than that.
We have to strengthen the institutions that serve as learning/protective ports. What is meant by that? We mean the family; we mean the community; we mean the schools; we mean faith based organisations. Long ago they used to say it takes a village to bring up a child, now our villages, unfortunately, are fast becoming like our urban areas, where everyone is to him or herself and it is a doggy doggy world.
We have to look at for example; it may have been thought about before, we have day care centres, we have to think about night care centres. There are so many single parents, when they go out to work, for example, most security guards are now women. Many of them single women and they have a seven year old child, a four year old and a two year old. When they go out in the night, the seven year old child is babysitting and is the mother and father for the four and two year old. Perhaps the Government with help from other agencies need to look at night care centres, so when someone is going off to work in the night, it is the same as it is in the day, there is a safe place they can leave their young children.
We have to develop parenting skills for our young people and our middle aged, even our older parents. Look at it like this, when you go to buy a car or a television, look at the care you take. You go and get the instructions on what you have to do with the car. You take these instructions very seriously. A lot of persons are getting children and they do not have any support. Children are getting children; they do not have the skill.
I say, without fear of contradiction that my greatest achievement has been bringing up two young people who are fairly okay. They are not perfect. None of us have perfect off springs, but that is a task that is monumental and we have to give it the central position it deserves. If we do not bring up our children, with help of course from our extended family and our friends, who is going to bring them up? If we do not inculcate in them the right attitudes; respect for authority, all these things that sound really simple have to be learned. We cannot teach them if we do not know them, so parents have to be told.
When I went to the institution in Washington, an institution I think you also went to, they spoke about tabula rasa, a blank slate. I believe that children come into the world with a blank slate. It is responsibility of the primary care givers - their parents - to ensure that every entry on that blank slate is a positive entry. As that child grows older and his or her nucleus begins to expand, to schools, religious organisations and to the community, the leaders in those areas, have a responsibility, a scared responsibility to continue to make positive entries on that person’s slate of life.
It is by doing those very fundamental things that we will begin, I think, to reverse this, what we call an epidemic. We think it is an epidemic because it is widespread and that is what an epidemic means.
Other strategies to decrease interpersonal violence, well I have already spoken about safe, stable and nurturing relationships between children and their parents and caregivers; developing life skills, reducing the availability and harmful use of alcohol and drugs; reducing access to guns and other illegal weapons; promoting gender equality and challenging gender norms, changing cultural and social norms. We also need to have a relationship with the media. Violence is glorified, not only in Guyana, but in the Caribbean and further afield. In the average movie, in the first five minutes, ten people are killed. Violence is glorified in our community, surely that has an effect on the children who are spending fourteen, fifteen and sixteen hours in front of a television. My Hon. Colleague also just mentioned video games that are inherent, many of them are violent. There are good ones; we are not saying there are no good ones.
Then of course, we have the indecent language. We have the songs. I do not think some of us have listened; I know the Hon. Minister Rohee may have listened to one or two of those and seen the words, when I was in the National Commission on Law and Order. We would be horrified, all of us if we hear because you really cannot hear the words. Only the young people, for some reason, have different ears, they actually hear the words. The older ones like us, we do not really hear, we just hear the rhythm. But some of those words are astonishingly frightening. The call to violence is naked and unequivocal in some songs and we have to do something about it.
The motion having gone through four or five simple WHEREAS clauses, ask this National Assembly to do a few things: Firstly, to unequivocally condemn all forms of interpersonal violence. I can see no one having a problem with that. The second Resolved clause asks us to designate a day to be observed under the theme, “Parliamentarians against Interpersonal Violence.” that is not a theme obviously carved in stone, but we have to put down some theme, during which, the National Assembly will organise appropriate activities to highlight ways in which interpersonal violence can be reduced. The third one calls on the Government to establish a broad based committee and the groups are mentioned.
In the Hon. Gail Teixeira’s amendment, the Hon. Member seeks to remove that clause and to call on the National Assembly to commit to actively support existing programmes, et cetera. While there is no problem with us supporting, the purpose of this penultimate Resolved clause is for the very reason that, on the one hand we have this high incident, this epidemic and on the other hand you have all these initiatives. Yet the epidemic remains stubbornly present. What is being called for is a National body to pull all these strands together; the pull the religious bodies; to pull the Acts, the Law Commission, the Constitutional Commission; to pull all of them together and come up with a National plan. They will obviously do different things. We must sit down and say what is happening because something is wrong. If something was not wrong, with all the initiatives being taken, interpersonal violence could not still be at this epidemic level because some of these organisations and some of these initiatives are dated in the sense that they have been here for a while. The last Resolved clause calls for the Government to lay in the National Assembly, within one month of the aforesaid, a National Plan of Action.
Briefly, if I can mention the Hon. Member Ms. Teixeira’s proposed amendments. One - the second WHEREAS clause is to replace “has” with “have”. I agree with that that was a typo, so there is no problem with that. The next two recommended amendments have to do with replacing the word “epidemic” firstly with “alarming” and on the second instance, we will be placing “epidemic” with the words “disturbing trend”.
Sir, in our humble opinion, the level of interpersonal violence in Guyana is more than alarming. What may be alarming is that the high tide may once again come over the wall on Thursday and flood some people out. I am not trying to trivialise that that may be alarming. What may be alarming is the fact that the Member of Parliaments (MPs) do not seem to be able to get along here, but outside they get along, that may be alarming. What may be alarming is when you look in the mirror in the morning and say, oh my goodness, I have more grey hairs than I should have and I am getting a little older; that is alarming. But, what we have with interpersonal violence is nothing short of an epidemic. While it is not my intention as I said to dismiss the amendments, we feel that the word “epidemic” conveys the level of how wide spread it is; how consuming it is; how deep it is; how wide it is and because of those reasons and for no other reasons we would want to keep the word “epidemic” in the two places that it occurs.
Going down on the Resolved clauses, the Hon. Teixeira proposal is, after we said:
“This National Assembly unequivocally condemns all forms of interpersonal violence.”
It then has a proposed insertion:
“...And reaffirms that previous commitment to the implementation of the Parliamentary Resolution No. 72 of December 11th, 2008 against violence against women and children.”
This motion is bigger than violence against women and children. This motion is about violence against everyone and it includes men. For too long we have left men out. Obviously, if you are dealing with interpersonal violence or violence against women and children, that is all you will deal with, but this motion wants to embrace everyone and we want to let men know, this National Assembly must let men know, that this problem of interpersonal violence cannot be reduced without their active buy-in and their active participation.
We do not want to, I would not want to say dilute; we have already, as the Hon. Members rightly said, in 2008, we have already made a commitment about violence against women and children and we see no need to bring this back into a motion that is wider than that. As such, that amendment, we are unable to support. It comes back to what I said at the beginning; had we had an opportunity for discussion, we may have been able to change words genuinely, etc, but as I said, that was not to be. I think that the heat of the debate and all of that left us in a situation where perhaps persons were tired and that did not happen.
As I said, the last Resolved clause, we want to see a National broad based committee established. The main function would be to pull all these strands together. We have to get involved actively, not just as giving support; Members of Parliament have to get involved actively; the National Assembly as a body must be represented on that.
Interpersonal violence is too serious for us to think that we can make a difference if we all go our separate ways. As such, it is my fervent hope that despite the fact, whether the amendments are carried or not, the Government will unequivocally support this motion. Despite all of our differences we will send a message to the Guyanese people that on the issue of interpersonal violence, the National Assembly, in the same way that we will stand side by side in defence of our sovereignty and National integrity, we will stand side by side on the issue of saying to the Nation, interpersonal violence must stop, we condemn it and we condemn it unequivocally. I thank you Sir. [Applause]
Mrs. Backer (replying): I consider this a... I do not want to say a “red letter day” because the last red letter day we had, on the 14th of February, the National Assembly, ended very abruptly. I do not want to call this a red letter day. It is indeed, for me, a pleasure and I want to assure the Hon. Member Rev. Dr. Kwame Gilbert that he has given some personal commitment that I have made to myself. He may be refreshed more regularly than he will suspect, in terms of my presentations in the House. It is indeed a red letter day because I have or I am about to have in my hand - we are still waiting on it - certain amendments that are standing in my name and seconded by no lesser person than the Government Chief Whip. I think that, in its itself, is not only refreshing but augurs well for the future. I have been told that this is a strong white smoke coming from the National Assembly to show the consensus has been reached.
Hon. Member, are your amendments about to be circulated?
Ms. Teixeira: [Inaudible]
Mrs. Backer: Sir, as I wait, I do not intend to say anything on the motion itself in wrapping up save and except to thank all the Members who spoke and to say that I do agree with Rev. Dr. Kwame Gilbert that a lot of the problems is easy to legislate. We can legislate on anything tomorrow that we want to do, not only on interpersonal violence but any sphere of public life, but it is unless we have the will and unless the change starts from within us, as he has rightly said. Whatever legislation we have we have to breathe life into it. That life has to come from us. I do agree with him completely that it is very important.
Hon. Mr. Speaker, I am not entirely sure how you will proceed. But I just want to thank everyone for participating. I want to thank the Hon. Member, Mrs. Hughes, because it was the Hon. Member who said to us at the beginning of the break to let us sit and try to... She took that initiative.
Mr. Speaker: Thank you very much, Mrs. Hughes.
Mrs. Backer: I do not want to say brought the two elephants together. She brought Members of the two bigger parties together – Mrs. Hughes, Hon. Kwame Gilbert and the Hon. Minister of Human Services and Social Security. We were able to indeed come up with certain agreed proposals that we hope will send that one voice signal to the community at large, to all Guyanese, both here and abroad, that on this issue we stand united.
With those words, I commend the motion. There are amendments and I will await your guidance, Sir, as to how we will proceed with them. [Applause]
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